Legislature(1995 - 1996)

03/06/1995 08:05 AM House RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
 HRES - 03/06/95                                                               
 Number 322                                                                    
                                                                               
 HB 170 INTENSIVE MANAGEMENT OF GAME                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PETE KELLY, PRIME SPONSOR, stated since the bill,              
 itself, was discussed a week ago, he would not overview the bill              
 again.  He said there are people on teleconference who would like             
 to make comments and also answer questions.                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a MOTION to ADOPT CSHB 170(RES), version           
 G dated March 3, 1995.                                                        
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if there were any objections.  Hearing                
 none, the MOTION PASSED.                                                      
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN noted there was a hand out which compares version           
 C to version G of HB 170.                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KELLY stated there is no substantive changes in                
 version G, only a tightening up of the language.                              
                                                                               
 Number 389                                                                    
                                                                               
 SANDRA ARNOLD, REPRESENTATIVE, ALASKA WILDLIFE ALLIANCE, testified            
 via teleconference.  She stated she has spoken with many biologists           
 who all say the same thing about HB 170 and that is, it is                    
 biologically unachievable unless there is an intention to have a              
 predator level at zero.  She stressed many Alaskans value the fact            
 that Alaska is different--it still does have abundant predators and           
 spends 6 percent more dollars each year on dealing with wildlife in           
 non-consumptive activities.  She noted she keeps hearing that the             
 Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) needs to stop managing             
 people and start managing the resource.  She felt people management           
 is and has always been an inherent part of wildlife management.               
 She pointed out urban hunters should be more than willing to take             
 a year off from moose hunting or travel a little farther to where             
 the caribou and moose are abundant, rather than scream for more               
 predator control.                                                             
                                                                               
 MS. ARNOLD wondered why no one has talked about the cost of HB 170.           
 Intensive management of game is very costly.  She said if what the            
 bill asks for is possible, it would be quite expensive to achieve.            
 The sustained yield principle is complex and cannot be taken care             
 of in a two page bill.  She noted it is easy to understand                    
 concepts--a balanced budget is an easy to understand concept but it           
 is very difficult to obtain.  She stressed it takes time, research,           
 and a non-stop effort to get wildlife to do what is desired and HB
 170 will not change that fact.  She told committee members to let             
 HB 170 die and the existing SB 77 be negated.                                 
                                                                               
 MS. ARNOLD felt the state should start over and try to come up with           
 a coherent, state-wide predator/prey management policy--one that              
 has broad-based support and where a diverse group of people are               
 invited to the table to discuss.  She said this issue will go on              
 and on and there will be lawsuits, controversies, etc.  In the                
 meantime, the resource will suffer.  She stated her organization              
 would love to settle the issue and move on.  They would gladly come           
 to the table in good faith to try and work out a compromise.  She             
 stressed HB 170 and SB 77 are only going to perpetuate the strife             
 over predator control in Alaska and continue to divide Alaskans.              
                                                                               
 Number 433                                                                    
                                                                               
 MICHAEL TETREAU, SEWARD, testified via teleconference and stated              
 public lands should not be used for single species management.  He            
 said management which favors one or two species also favors equally           
 certain interest groups and not the general public.  Public lands             
 should be managed to maintain natural eco-system processes.  He               
 noted single species management practiced in the past has resulted            
 in unexpected and undesirable results.  He stated the bill also               
 references the restoration of the abundance or productivity of                
 identified big game prey populations.  He stressed there is a big             
 difference between abundance and productivity.  He felt                       
 productivity should be used, not abundance.                                   
                                                                               
 MR. TETREAU stated HB 170 also eliminates the possibility of                  
 placing restrictions on methods or means of taking game, access to            
 game, or human harvest of game.  He said the people cannot be                 
 ignored and any game management should take a holistic approach.              
 He noted throughout the bill, the term big game prey is used as               
 opposed to large ungulates or moose and caribou.  He felt the true            
 intent of the bill is nothing more than predator control.                     
                                                                               
 Number 458                                                                    
                                                                               
 JIM RAMSDELL, SEWARD, testified via teleconference and stated when            
 he heard of HB 170 he wondered how anyone could bring up such                 
 legislation when Alaska is still reeling from the recent outcry               
 over wolf control efforts.  He realized the bill was just another             
 effort by lawmakers to control Alaska's wild in an effort to boost            
 (indiscernible).  He said he is a wildlife lover and deals with               
 many of the tourists coming to Alaska to view the wildlife and feel           
 the state's wild spirit.  He stated he could not believe the                  
 legislature, by their actions, would not care what tourists and               
 outsiders say, while standing with outstretched hands, taking                 
 millions and millions of tourist dollars.                                     
                                                                               
 MR. RAMSDELL stated there is much more to the issue than just                 
 predation including weather, food supply, bull/cow ratios, and                
 hunting pressure.  He said in view of past legislation, freezers              
 full of moose, caribou, and deer can do much more damage than good.           
 He recommended HB 170 be killed.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 479                                                                    
                                                                               
 MARK LUTTRELL, PRESIDENT, EASTERN KENAI PENINSULA ENVIRONMENTAL               
 ACTION ASSOCIATION, testified via teleconference and stated if HB
 170 is not taken seriously, this bill is just a nuisance bill and             
 gets in the way of real wildlife management.  He felt the sponsors            
 are guilty of what environmentalists are often accused of--filing             
 lawsuits to allegedly delay or try to up the costs of a particular            
 agency action.  He said if HB 170 is taken seriously and there is             
 some wildlife management (indiscernible) in this bill, he felt it             
 is still a bad bill and the conclusion is that wolves are bad, they           
 should be killed and moose are good, we need them.  He stressed               
 there is much more involved in the way people interact with                   
 wildlife and there is much more to the ecology of predator/prey               
 relationships.  He recommended HB 170 be killed.                              
                                                                               
 Number 510                                                                    
                                                                               
 OLIVER BURRIS, FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference and stated             
 he is a retired wildlife biologist.  He stressed he is not a legal            
 wordsmith on the construction of the bill but expressed his major             
 concern is the neglected management on non-management of the                  
 state's wildlife resources, primarily moose and caribou.  He                  
 pointed out that most Interior moose populations are only one-tenth           
 to one-half of former levels.  He noted 90-95 percent of the calves           
 are killed before they reach 16 months of age, where they could               
 contribute to the harvest by humans.  He added that 75 percent are            
 killed before their first winter, meaning a high winter loss is not           
 being looked at in most of the situations.  Moose harvest,                    
 typically, is only about three to five percent of the annual calf             
 crop of these moose and caribou populations.                                  
                                                                               
 MR. BURRIS said no where does anyone come close to harvesting 30-50           
 percent of the harvestable surplus which is obtainable through any            
 reasonably active management program and does not require the zero            
 elimination of predators.  Active management can support high                 
 densities of predators.  Areas have been seen where active                    
 management programs were in place and predator density was restored           
 to the number per square mile per area density much higher than               
 what it was before the active management program started.  He                 
 stressed the idea there is a need to eliminate predators to have an           
 active management program is false.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 537                                                                    
                                                                               
 SAM HARBO, PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT & STATISTICS,            
 FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference and stated there are                  
 compelling environmental arguments for greater utilization of                 
 northern ungulates.  He said more and more ecologists are                     
 recognizing that greater dependence and greater utilization on                
 local resources is the environmental way to go.  Environmentalists            
 arguing against greater utilization on local resources,                       
 particularly renewable resources such as moose, caribou and sheep,            
 are on the wrong side of the environmental issue.  He pointed out             
 they have left their value system get in the way of sound                     
 environmental reasoning.                                                      
                                                                               
 MR. HARBO stated active management, which he believes the bill                
 should be called, over prey populations undoubtedly is going to               
 require greater effort and hence, costs on the part of the                    
 department.  He said it does not take much effort by the department           
 to manage a moose population if only about one and one-half percent           
 of the population is being taken, which is restricted to bulls                
 only.  He felt passive management does not cost much.  Active                 
 management is going to cost more.  He stressed the environmental              
 advantages of utilizing local resources and much greater returns at           
 the local level warrant, in very selected areas, more management              
 than what is occurring currently.                                             
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN recalled that Mr. Burris had mentioned a low                
 number between one and one-half and three percent of human harvest.           
 He wondered if Mr. Burris was talking about the entire herd.  He              
 noted that Mr. Burris had talked about a 75 percent mortality of              
 newborns that were not harvested.  He asked if the three percent              
 involve those who mature later or of the entire herd.                         
                                                                               
 MR. BURRIS responded the figures he used involve looking at the               
 number of offspring being born into the population.  He said the              
 harvest by humans normally equals...he was not talking about the              
 harvest of calves but the harvest of some adults in the                       
 population...to between three and five percent of those calves                
 which are being born into the population each year.                           
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified there would be 75 percent killed by               
 other causes and three percent of a number of calves born would               
 ultimately be harvested.                                                      
                                                                               
 MR. BURRIS said that is correct.  He stated when the overall                  
 figures are looked at on the number of calves being born, and those           
 who survived until at least 16 months of age are looked at, it will           
 be found that only five to ten percent of those calves have                   
 survived to 16-18 months of age.                                              
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified if 100 calves are born, 75 of those               
 will die before they have their first winter and by the time those            
 calves reach 18 months, there will only be five or ten calves.                
                                                                               
 MR. BURRIS said that is correct.                                              
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified that of those five or ten calves, three           
 are harvested.                                                                
                                                                               
 MR. BURRIS responded the equivalent of three are harvested.                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN clarified between 30-60 percent of the                      
 harvestable calves are currently being harvested.                             
                                                                               
 MR. BURRIS said that was correct and added after all other                    
 mortality has taken place.                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN stated the sponsor is saying, therefore, let us             
 get into that 75 percent and reduce that percent so the numbers               
 reaching 18 months will go up.                                                
                                                                               
 MR. BURRIS stated that is correct.                                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN GREEN announced HB 170 will be rescheduled at a later             
 date.                                                                         

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